Upgrade: Technisub Alulight 20W halogen to 3xP7

[imnata]

Hello everybody,

Till last summer I was using Technisub mini Alulight when I flooded it on my first dive during my vacation (it was a night dive)
The lamp is nothing special, but I liked it and it was enough for my needs,
as I am mostly diving in very clear waters of Adriatic sea.
Repeairing the lamp turned out to be as expensive as buying a new one...
By chance I stumbled upon CPF and seeing all the nice mods, especially P7 maglite mods. I decided to get something good out of this.


From the lamp I'm planning to use the whole body (anodized aluminium, mineral glass 6mm thick, back part with electronic switches (reed) on/off,
SOS button and preasure release valve with a non return valve)

The lamp was using a 6S 18650 NiMH battery pack (7,2V 4100mAh) from GP (GP410LAH)

As a light source I plan on using 3 X SSC P7 LED with McR-27 Seoul reflector (3x). It's supposed to be the best reflector for P7?

Then it gets a bit complicated with the combination of a drivery/battery pack(&charger).
At first I thought about a LiFePo battery pack as I read (Alles uber akkusysteme) that this are almost ideal batteries.
But for my first mod it would be too expensive for me. Over 200$ for the pack and a suitable charger.
However with this pack it would be easier to find an appropriate quality buck driver (Der Wichtel driver or TaskLED drivers)

For now I wanted to try with a similar battery pack as I had before.
6S 18650 NiMH - 7,2V. I was hoping to be able to use the charger that I had for my GP battery pack.
The thing is I cannot get the same model of batteries here in Slovenia. I also looked on some other german sites and couldn't find them. :shakehead
So for minimising cost for now could I use my old charger with a similar NiMH battery pack (other manufacturer and similar mAh values)?

Of course if I were to use a 7,2V battery pack I would need a boost regulator. Right? (3x P7 in series - Vf=10.6V)
However I had trouble finding a Boost regulator, that would be able to work with 3XP7 (Iout=2.8A)

I know this is a lot of stuff at once. So maybe for now I'd like to get some answers on:
1. Does anybody know where I could order GP 18650 NiMH batteries GP410LAH?
2. Could I use my old GP charger with other manufacturers NiMH batteries with similar mAh?
3.Is my general idea about the battery pack, LEDs and Led driver OK?
Some other suggestions?

 

[Goldigger]

Hello everybody,

Till last summer I was using Technisub mini Alulight when I flooded it on my first dive during my vacation (it was a night dive)
The lamp is nothing special, but I liked it and it was enough for my needs,
as I am mostly diving in very clear waters of Adriatic sea.
Repeairing the lamp turned out to be as expensive as buying a new one...
By chance I stumbled upon CPF and seeing all the nice mods, especially P7 maglite mods. I decided to get something good out of this.


From the lamp I'm planning to use the whole body (anodized aluminium, mineral glass 6mm thick, back part with electronic switches (reed) on/off,
SOS button and preasure release valve with a non return valve)

The lamp was using a 6S 18650 NiMH battery pack (7,2V 4100mAh) from GP (GP410LAH)

As a light source I plan on using 3 X SSC P7 LED with McR-27 Seoul reflector (3x). It's supposed to be the best reflector for P7?

Then it gets a bit complicated with the combination of a drivery/battery pack(&charger).
At first I thought about a LiFePo battery pack as I read (Alles uber akkusysteme) that this are almost ideal batteries.
But for my first mod it would be too expensive for me. Over 200$ for the pack and a suitable charger.
However with this pack it would be easier to find an appropriate quality buck driver (Der Wichtel driver or TaskLED drivers)

For now I wanted to try with a similar battery pack as I had before.
6S 18650 NiMH - 7,2V. I was hoping to be able to use the charger that I had for my GP battery pack.
The thing is I cannot get the same model of batteries here in Slovenia. I also looked on some other german sites and couldn't find them. :shakehead
So for minimising cost for now could I use my old charger with a similar NiMH battery pack (other manufacturer and similar mAh values)?

Of course if I were to use a 7,2V battery pack I would need a boost regulator. Right? (3x P7 in series - Vf=10.6V)
However I had trouble finding a Boost regulator, that would be able to work with 3XP7 (Iout=2.8A)

I know this is a lot of stuff at once. So maybe for now I'd like to get some answers on:
1. Does anybody know where I could order GP 18650 NiMH batteries GP410LAH?
2. Could I use my old GP charger with other manufacturers NiMH batteries with similar mAh?
3.Is my general idea about the battery pack, LEDs and Led driver OK?
Some other suggestions?

Putting 3 P7's in there will have a hugh impact on your burn times, 6 x 18650.. I cant see a way of configuring them to work with the hipCC driver to give you decent burntimes..
If you need a driver to buck then theres the HipCC or Hipflex, HipCC is a dumb driver so only one power level.
Hipflex has the UI-UNI firmware which allows you to have varible levels of output, but it needs a momentary switch. Not sure how you can incorperate one in a dive light!

Personally i would use one P7 and a bigger reflector, at 60mm stock reflector diameter you could use the DX 52mm reflector which gives a nice spot and some side spill. also available from bestofferbuy
DX also sell the P7 module which comes with reflector and driver works with 3.6-8.4v i have no idea how reliable the driver is though.
You can also buy cheap 18650's from DX

On the other hand you could put 5 XRE's with asperhical lens VF 18.5v, wire your pack 6 18650's in series to give 22.2v.. add a buck driver and you'll have much better burn times than 3 P7's

Packhorse might help you with the aspheric lens, i was thinking something like these 22mm ones from DX

 

[DaYerk]

I have a smimilar situation: my light uses 6 10Ah D-Cells. The 7.2V are not ideal for a driver: Boost indeed gives not enough power for 3 LEDs, and for a buck regulated driver there is to much drop for 3 p-wired P7.

I would buy 2 or 3 MC-Es on an individual wiring star (and wire them 2S2P) and a resistor for direct drive or switch to 4 XP-Gs or XR-Es, because the MCE needs a large reflector/optic for a proper beam.

With 3 MC-Es your running time is about an hour or you have to reduce the current.

Just my 2Cent

 

[Goldigger]

whats wrong with the HIPCC? Whats you total voltage of your pack Dayerk?

 

[DaYerk]

whats wrong with the HIPCC? Whats you total voltage of your pack Dayerk?

The current (Iin) is limited to 2,8A and the efficiency is 80-95%. In case of 30W LEDs this is not easy to handle.

Due to the technical specs you need about 12V for 3 P7.

My pack has the same voltage: 7,2V (6 NiMh).

 

[Doh!Nut]

I did get some NiMh 18650 from an old Laptop battery you may find some from one of the battery replacement places but it will be expensive.
Your charger should work with other NiMh packs, the cheapest may be to get a Tamiya car battery and split it
Tamiya

If the casing gives good packaging for the batteries you could look at replacing them with LiIon 18650s from USA or HongKong

6*18650 35USD

Protection circuit
28usd

22.2v charger (for 6 series LiIon)
TEN BUCKS!!!

PS
I am doing a similar build with an old oceanic torch and 4*18650

 

[Goldigger]

Personally i think these can lights are easiest to mod..

 

[Goldigger]

The current (Iin) is limited to 2,8A and the efficiency is 80-95%. In case of 30W LEDs this is not easy to handle.

Due to the technical specs you need about 12V for 3 P7.

My pack has the same voltage: 7,2V (6 NiMh).

Have you read the technical specs on the HipCC it shows that 3 P7's gave over 95% effeciency at 11.5 volts..

Ok i know your battery is 7.2v but im just saying that with the correct voltage the HipCC is efficient..

In this case i doubt you could configure a pack suitable to fit the space you have..

Could you use AA NiMh?

 

[Goldigger]

IMNATA you said that you mainly dive in very clear waters..
you also said the lamp was enough for your needs so thats 20watts roughly 360 lumens vs 2700 lumens..

Isn't 3 P7's 2700 lumens going to be overkill compared to what you were diving with??

Watch this video... 3 P7's in a maglight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZWDDaHIoBg

 

[DaYerk]

Don`t get me wrong, i don`t say the HipCC is inefficient. - But it has the Iin limitation. So you need the 11,5 (or 12V) as the lowest voltage.

Since i invested 60 Euros in a new pack, it would hurt to change everything (akku and loader).

Also my first intension is to keep it simple. My main light has to work flawlessly. So i would not go away from NiMh. A 6S LiIo is no option for me to use it in a divelight! Even a protection circuit can fail. The cheaper the stuff, the bigger the chance!

So the cheapest way is to use LEDs with a vf close to 7.2V and use a resistor.

In my case the 10Ah NiMh cell delivers 80-90% capacity above 1.2V. The current (3MC-E wired 2S6P) is about 4A. This gives me >2 hours light at a decent level.

In case of the Technisub from imnata the 4.1Ah akku is at 1C. Which means 1 hour. For nightdives this could be a bit short.

And as you say, 3 P7 or MC-E could be overkill. In murky water you will see nothing but a lightball if you use short reflectors.


Edith says: please note that english is not my first language. Some words could sound a bit harsh. Sorry about that ;-)

 

[imnata]

Putting 3 P7's in there will have a hugh impact on your burn times, 6 x 18650.. I cant see a way of configuring them to work with the hipCC driver to give you decent burntimes..
If you need a driver to buck then theres the HipCC or Hipflex, HipCC is a dumb driver so only one power level.
Hipflex has the UI-UNI firmware which allows you to have varible levels of output, but it needs a momentary switch. Not sure how you can incorperate one in a dive light!

I realize that burn time will be around 1 hour. But that's what I had till now. And it was OK for me. (Doesn't mean it shouldn't be better ) I was also counting on different power modes for extending the burn time. Even on 25% I'll have more light than I had before on full.
Manufacturers specs. actually stated that Alulight's 20W halogen bulb produces 600lm. But we know better than to believe manufacturer's specs, don't we
I suppose it's not the most rational thing to build a 2700lm monster and then run it on 25%. But that's what you get when you see all the crazy stuff on CPF It's very contagious.
So you want to get a little bit crazy too.

IMNATA you said that you mainly dive in very clear waters..
you also said the lamp was enough for your needs so thats 20watts roughly 360 lumens vs 2700 lumens..

Isn't 3 P7's 2700 lumens going to be overkill compared to what you were diving with??

Watch this video... 3 P7's in a maglight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZWDDaHIoBg

Like on the video I was hoping to get a wider beam with 3xP7. With 2700lm I'd be able to light up a larger area. I don't want to make a light sabre.
Also I was very impressed with the MB twinled. It uses 2 Osram ostar LEDs.
I especially like the last photo where it lights up the whole cave.
Hhmmm, 2 Ostars together should give around 2200lm, maybe 3xP7 is really overkill?!

Personally i would use one P7 and a bigger reflector, at 60mm stock reflector diameter you could use the DX 52mm reflector which gives a nice spot and some side spill. also available from bestofferbuy
DX also sell the P7 module which comes with reflector and driver works with 3.6-8.4v i have no idea how reliable the driver is though.
You can also buy cheap 18650's from DX

On the other hand you could put 5 XRE's with asperhical lens VF 18.5v, wire your pack 6 18650's in series to give 22.2v.. add a buck driver and you'll have much better burn times than 3 P7's

Now I'm really considering that 3xp7 is too much. So maybe I'll be thinking about some alternative set-ups.

I would buy 2 or 3 MC-Es on an individual wiring star (and wire them 2S2P) and a resistor for direct drive or switch to 4 XP-Gs or XR-Es, because the MCE needs a large reflector/optic for a proper beam.

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you wrote here? 3xMC-E in 2S2P??
XP-G seem like very nice LEDs, but I've read that there no good reflectors for them yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

With 3 MC-Es your running time is about an hour or you have to reduce the current.

3xMC-E is almost the same as 3xP7.


@Doh!Nut
Thanks for the answer (old charger-new battery pack & links)
I don't know if I'm comfortable with using LiIon. I'll do some more reading and think about it.

Edith says: please note that english is not my first language. Some words could sound a bit harsh. Sorry about that ;-)

Same here. Sorry for the typos or my gramar.
Everybody thank you for quick answers :thumbsup:

 

[imnata]

Hipflex has the UI-UNI firmware which allows you to have varible levels of output, but it needs a momentary switch. Not sure how you can incorperate one in a dive light!

I forgot to answer this question.
The button on the back part of the housing, when pushed it activated a reed switch, the light went ON and then the button returned to it's original position, with the light still on.
If I understand correctly this is how a momentary switch works?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_switch

Here are some pictures of the Alulight:

 

[DaYerk]

2S2P means "wired 2 serial, 2parallel. MC-E and P7 are not exactly the same.

The P7 is fix wired 1S4P (parallel) or fix 4S1P (serial).

The MC-E is fix wired 4S1P (serial) or individual, means you can adress each emitter.
So you can indivdiualy build an 4S1P or 1S4P or 2S2P (which is imho best for 7.2V)

 

[lucca brassi]

Great housing for some HID 24W kit + tank

ballast: 77€

lamp 72€ 12°

at http://www.hid-tec.de/

princip pa je opisan tu www.hoehlentauchen.at/php/sites/index.php?artikel=174

 

[imnata]

2S2P means "wired 2 serial, 2parallel. MC-E and P7 are not exactly the same.

The P7 is fix wired 1S4P (parallel) or fix 4S1P (serial).

The MC-E is fix wired 4S1P (serial) or individual, means you can adress each emitter.
So you can indivdiualy build an 4S1P or 1S4P or 2S2P (which is imho best for 7.2V)

Ah it was ment how you wire the separate dies not the (whole) LEDs.
Now I get it.

@Lucca brassi

Hvala za linke. Bom pogledal, čeprav me bolj vleče v predelavo z ledicami.

 

[imnata]

I looked at some diagrams of both LEDs and I can see how the MC-E is more versatile than P7.

SSC P7

Cree MC-E

Due to the diagram of P7 I can't see how it is possible to be wired 4S1P?

If 4S1P is possible with P7 or MC-E then Vf should be 14,4V and Iout=0,7A
and for the 2S2P > Vf= 7,2V ; Iout=1,4A
So for 3xMC-E(4S1P) in series > 12S1P > Vf~43V ; Iout=0,7A
or 3xMC-E(2S2P) in series > 6S2P > Vf~21,6V ; Iout=1,4A

With this in mind it should be easier to find a boost driver.

Maybe taskled hyperbooster driver?

 

[DaYerk]

Why don`t you wire each LED 2S2P and wire the 3 LEDs parallel? This way you don`t need a driver.

 

[imnata]

Because I would like a constant light output.

 

[DaYerk]

This will not be easy:

Boost is not possible because the Iin limitation of 2.8A.

Buck is only working with parallel wired LEDs. You have to find a driver with 3x2.8A=8.4A

Packhorse has the same Problem with his SST-90 LED.

Nevertheless you have an Pin of round about 33-35W. Your batterie will do this?

I would first buy a 6V 30W bulb and check this out.

As I said, I have similar light, but with a brandnew 7.2V 10Ah batterie. I need light for 60-70 minutes.
The batterie voltage will not drop that much during this time.

 

[Packhorse]

The P7 is fix wired 1S4P (parallel) or fix 4S1P (serial)

Are you sure?

I have never seen or heard of a 4S1P P7.
Ostars are wired that way though.